Stop being hypocrites! Around Town, posted by KNator, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:59 am
This was originally posted to the "medical marijuana" story. I figured I'd post it here, as well:
As a Danville business owner in the food & beverage business (and no, I won't tell you which one, due to the possibility of the pitchforks coming out), I can tell you a few things as it relates to drug abuse, NIMBYism, and whether or not Danville has a holier-than-thou attitude. Here's my take:
1) Compared to ANY other city I've owned a business (and I've owned 'em in some big ones and some small ones like Danville), the amount of alcoholism, binge drinking, cocaine, and prescription medication abuse in Danville is STAGGERING.
2) The reason why #1 is not better known or understood is because of the over-reliance on lawyers and therapists. For all the talk in Danville of personal responsibility, the reality is that when it comes down to a DUI or some other infraction, the majority of residents would rather 'lawyer up' than accept their fault.
3) On the subject of DUIs, I know that many residents and business owners complain of over-enforcement. While I agree that the Danville PD is probably at a loss for things to do to keep themselves occupied, I would also say that I've seen an inordinate number of folks in this town REFUSE to take cabs (even after begging from my staff!) and then proceed to drive while obviously intoxicated.
4) As it pertains to medical marijuana, don't kid yourselves, people - marijuana is for all intents and purposes LEGAL. It is being grown in Danville RIGHT NOW. Danville residents purchase it from local dealers, or travel into SF or Oakland if they don't have a local connect. I would go so far as to venture that over 3/4 of Danville residents between the ages of 21-40 smoke pot regularly.
5) With regard to Danville being a "family" town, the divorce, philandering, and scandal in this town belies its status in this area. I've seen 40-something moms with 20-something daughters out "partying" with each other (doing coke, drinking to excess, etc.) and hitting on the same 20-something boys. I've heard women brag in great detail of their "pool-boy" side-dishes. I've heard men brag in great detail about how many women they've slept with under the noses of their supposedly-faithful wives. Again, I would venture that the divorce rate in Danville is most likely higher than that of any of its peers.
In short, I believe that Danville is a highly dysfunctional community, one that tries desperately to keep up the false appearance of high morals and small-town values. In reality, it is a base, nouveau-riches, hypocritical place that once had the glory of being a truly idyllic ranching and farming community.
Posted by Bill, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Dear Mr. KNator,
It takes a great deal of guts to make a comment like that. I have lived in this community for 25 years and my experience is similar.
This area is one of the most beautiful scenic paradises on the face of the earth, and most folks just have no clue about the Jeckyl/Hyde nature of our community.
Mr. Pshaw. It is simply unAmerican to discriminate on the basis of a difference of opinion. I thought the "love it or leave it" slogan went out with the Vietnam War, but I guess not. If someone has cancer, is it possible to love the person and hate the disease?
Posted by PaoTzu, a resident of another community, on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Like the anonymous author alludes to, take a cab to Walnut Creek BART, buy a $6.20 ticket, and head to 19th St. It only takes 20 minutes. Check out the area to the Southwest of 19th St. BART. Now that's what free enterprise is all about.
About drunks: when a person is drunk, driving seems like it will be fun even though they are incapable of driving correctly. When a person is uplifted by the herb, they'd rather do anything than have to drive... they'd rather be vacuuming their car out. In fact, I'm about to go do that.
One day, all the people who get drunk and look down on the herb will realize why only thugs come out The Town when they try some of that well-grown dosia of some high-bred strain and be like alcohol is weak and it is better to move out of Blackhawk and go rep West MacArthur Blvd. all day e'ry day. Oaksterdam will collect all that business, y'all don't even trip.
Posted by KNator, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 12:04 am
Thanks all (even you, Rick Pshaw), for taking the time to read this and respond. Perhaps one of the most important things Danville can do to get back to its goal of being a family-friendly, idyllic place is to forge a real community of ideas, a place where diversity of opinion is encouraged and even celebrated.
Posted by Danville mom, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:29 am
To KNator, I would not argue with what you have witnessed and certainly those things do go on. But to generalize about the whole population based on your observations of your clientele is overreaching. Keep in mind you have a limited sample: those who spend time going out and partying, who choose to spend their money on bar tabs and drugs, and who do things like party with their kids. Many of us are home every night supervising homework, taking kids to sports practices/games, going on family outings on the weekends, or don't have the extra spending money to even go out as a couple on the weekends. So while there is the partier element, there are also those of us who got that out of our system in high school or college and have moved on to deeper pursuits.
Posted by Oh please, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:07 am
I'm not going to argue that KNator hasn't witnessed or experienced the things that he/she claims. I'm sure all of those things can be found in any community. That said, I don't think Danville, of all places, qualifies for a sweeping indictment like this.
In my opinion, the idea that Danville needs to "Get back to its goal of being a family-friendly, idyllic place" is hardly accurate or representative of how the vast majority of people feel. The Danville that I live in is a great place to live and is extremely family-friendly. I'm very satisfied and I would argue that the relative strength of our real estate market and schools supports the notion that most Danville residents feel the same way. As for "idyllic," I wasn't aware that was on the list of town goals.
To reiterate Rick's point, if KNator feels that Danville is such a depraved community, then he/she is welcome to move on. As an alternative, KNator could post the name of his/her establishment so that the masses of philandering, therapy-seeking, drug and alcohol crazed Danville citizens can give him a break.
Of course, he'll still have all of those jerks who visit Danville from dumps like Walnut Creek, Alamo, Pleasanton, etc. to contend with. :-)
Posted by Dan, a member of the Greenbrook Elementary School community, on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:24 am
If that's really been your Danville experience then you've got some options:
1) Change your circle of friends. This should be an easy fix as there are a lot of really nice people in Danville.
2) Reposition your establishment so that you get a different clientele. By the way, you might want to make sure your customers are from Danville so as to correctly correlate your observations with the towns you comment on.
3) Do something about the problems you think exist instead of just whining about it. There's a council seat open. You've described yourself as an established member of the community. Get elected on your platform of cleaning up this decrepit town.
4) As Rick mentions, vote with your feet. Move on.
Posted by Matt, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:32 am
Dan...You. might want to back up a second and realize he has a greater insight than you do...he sells booze and cigs, meaning he checks the ID of every person that comes in there and can judge first hand that they are from Danville based on that.
Posted by Dan, a member of the Greenbrook Elementary School community, on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:55 am
His "insight" doesn't gibe with my observations and experiences of the last 15 years and I'm pretty sure that when his wait staff and bartenders (not him) are checking ID, they're only checking the younger looking patrons and only looking at birth dates.
That said, the first two options were not meant to be taken at face value. I don't think he's going to change his circle of friends. My point on the second option was that his observations can hardly be taken to be based on a representative sampling. People come from all over to visit Danville bars and restaurants and how his place is positioned strongly influences who will patronize his establishment.
Posted by Johnny P, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 12:07 pm
The circle of influence a person works or socializes in certainly forms a frame of reference and opinion. KNators blanket statements only prove my point. Danville's schools are some of the highest rated schools in the nation. Schools represent students and students represent families. Just based on that, Danville has more going for it that most communities.
Posted by Bob K, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:11 pm
You should not base a whole towns values on the small percentage of the population that frequents bars. Danville has a population of over 43,000 people. There isn't a bar in Danville that has a capacity of over 200 people. That's a really small sample. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of people who have lived in this town for years that have never visited any of it's bars.
Don't generalize based on your very limited exposure to this towns citizens.
Posted by PaoTzu, a resident of another community, on Oct 14, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Sorry if I sounded like I was hella crazy earlier, I don't want to make cannabis look like something that really makes you want to rep West MacArthur Blvd.
But for real, just look at what pot clubs have done to North Oakland. The whole place used to be hella ghetto. I'm sure y'all seen it. Now, new businesses open up all the time. Even in the economic recession, we got new business. It's like the area was reborn.
I know Danville is what you'd call a "bedroom community," but I do think it is unwise for residents to just say this type of business can stay in Oakland and Berkeley while letting the local illegal black market pushers thrive in Danville.
Check it, remember ten years ago on Telegraph? Maybe y'all don't. Ten years ago, you couldn't walk ten feet without some dude trying to push a sack of weed on you. Now, it's not like that. The weed slingers have been marginalized by the North Oakland pot clubs. It's not 5-0 that did something, it's competition. Why would someone go buy some unknown bammer from some smelly bum when they could go buy Sour Diesel at a store where they are treated like a paying customer? It would be like buying hooch off the street instead of going to Beverages and More, ain't nobody going to go back to jail wine once they can get VSOP.
Posted by KNator, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Again, thank you all for your mostly thoughtful discussion regarding my statements earlier.
To clarify, let me make a few more points:
1) I was not intending to make a blanket statement or "whine" about the citizens of Danville. I agree that the VAST majority of its citizens are good, hard-working folk. I would further conjecture that its citizens that have been in Danville for a long, long time have a generally healthier value system than the folks who moved here because of the McMansions, BMWs, and "good" schools.
Rather, it was to inform those (most) of you who are upstanding citizens that Danville has more than its fair share of societal issues, and that the only reason these issues are not more visible (as in SF, Oakland, or Walnut Creek for that matter), is because the affluence of the community allows those issues to be swept under the rug.
2) I serve all types of folks, from familes out for an early meal to 20-somethings looking to see and be seen. As such, I do have a somewhat rare (not unique) ability to observe all types of residents. Due to the fact that Danville is, for most, a "bedroom community", I believe that the average upstanding citizen has very little insight into the towns problems save for infrequent gossip at kids' sporting events, PTA meetings, and the like. P.S. - I don't sell cigarettes.
3) For those of you with the "love-it-or-leave-it" attitude, let me just say this: There are certain things I love about Danville - The scenery, the charming downtown, young families out with their kids for ice cream on a Friday night, and many of the old-timers, just to name a few. My intention in locating my business here, beyond the obvious monetary one, was to become a part of the community by improving the quality of life in a small way, a way I know how.
Over the time I've spent here, the attitude of people like you has somewhat soured my initial enthusiasm for the town. I know your type. You're the politician that preaches values and then has an affair. You're the person that rails for personal responsibility, but wouldn't dare let your kid join the military. You're the white-collar middle manager at a mortgage firm who dares not speak up about the financial drugs you're pushing, because you're too scared to lose your job. You're the one who pushes your kid too hard to get good grades and play sports, nevermind the fact that your kid doesn't remember a damn thing he's learned and is smoking pot in your basement. You're the one whose wife is sleeping with the pool boy because she's bored with life and with you.
In short, you're the reason why I wrote my original post. Check yourself before you wreck yourself - I already have, and will be leaving town when my lease expires. You should pat yourself on the back for the good work you've done, running someone that cares about values, community, and culture out of town. Congrats.
Posted by TRex, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:50 pm
I think some major perspective is needed. I have lived in big cities, including Oakland, San Francisco, Los Angeles and a few abroad. There is absolutely nothing family-unfriendly right now in Danville, or for that matter anything non-idyllic. So some of our neighbors fool around with their pool boys and some use drugs (including alcohol). Big whoop. Human beings have been consuming intoxicants and schtooping pool boys (or their equivalents) since time began. Ultimately as long as they do these things as consenting and aware adults and don't do them while Timmy and Sally are watching, let them alone (and take a cab home when they're too schnockered to drive - whether it be from booze, pot or cocaine).
It is none of our jobs to judge our neighbors. What people do in the privacy of their own homes or other appropriate locales (bars, restaurants, bowling alleys) is no one's business but their own. The only time the community has an interest in someone's private behavior is when that behavior presents a real risk to another person's safety.
Posted by Elliot, a resident of the Blackhawk neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:10 pm
KNator, your bitterness is blinding. Every blog entry you make shows to be the biggest hypocrite operating in the 94526 zip code. Before you pick the twigs out from their eyes you should remove the logs from you own. Don't mask your criticism with your moral observations. You sound like a whiny retailer who wishes he would have gone to college and done something more meaningful with his life.
Posted by Johnny P, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Your last posting helped me understand your initial one where you basically labeled Danville as a town of pot smokers, adulterers, drunks and hypocrites who can't raise their own children properly....but this coming from a failed, angry, blame laying, small business owner who is using this forum to take a parting shot at the community who you think failed to support you......your mad because your business failed and so you've resorted to calling the citizens of Danville names. Nice.
Posted by Life long Danville resident, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:31 am
I would say that there are a lot of shallow & materialistic people who believe platic surgery and money will solve all problems and that you can medicate your way to happiness either through prescription drugs or alcohol. There are some that fall somewhere in between and teach their children to save and invest & give back to the community and be nice to people even if they don't fit into the "mold" and don't have the money to do extensive makeovers etc whether be personal or home (i.e. $200 hair cuts, lasers & Sunset home refurbishing). Many kids when they get to high school want to fit in and be popular and do all these things that you mention. Some grow out of it and some go on to become the same type of adult leading limited self-absorbed lives. Others come to their senses and become more moderate or have to abstain completely after abusing themselves for so many years.
Agree that you may see a skewed group because you own a liquor store here. To say that most people come from out of town to Danville to party makes no sense. They go to Walnut Creek there is more to do. It is interesting that you say that other towns where you have owned stores are not as bad as Danville. I would think this is what most suburban middle to upper class or wannabe towns are like. Many but not all people in Danville value money more than intellect. It's not that different from the Wall Street crowd that work hard and party hard but don't really have great values.
I would have to agree that it is a place that loves the superficial and is judgemental regarding less affluent towns. Many come here for the schools and could care less about these things. I would also have to agree that owning a liquor store, you might miss out on the more highly evolved group of people that do more than party here in Danville. I am sure that not all your customers are that bad but obnoxious people are bad enough sober... I am sure that some obnoxious Danville people throw their weight around and brag about their connetions and are even more annoying. I don't blame you for venting after reading in the weekly newspaper how idyllic it is here. It's good information and there are a lot of cocaine addicts here and they tend to abuse alcohol as well. There are also a lot of abstainers and moderate drinkers or occasional partyers.
Unfortunately for many here, the primary activity is going to bars and drinking for high school and post high school crowd that doesn't go away to school or do and then return. It's been like that here for a long time. Spoiled children. Parents that throw money at problems and teach their children that you can do anything if you have money and clout.
For the young people, I don't think it's not Danville so much as generally that whole generation brought up in cult of celebrity watching all their role models get wasted and some parents trying to be young and hip. Many of these kids have known nothing but prosperity and parents are too lazy to let them do things for themselves and cater excesssively to their children and let them do whatever they want. These children turn into obnoxious adults and selfish people. Others become very successful and contribute to society and take advantage of the education that they had.
You can't blame a whole town but you are right there is a lot of hypocrisy here or people that don't want to believe it can happen here. Even the police reports in Danville do not show most crime like Pleasanton does... they report it all. Here you know people were attacked or robbed but it never makes the Police Report section because they want to maintain the reputation and that is part of the hypocrisy you refer to...it can't happen here.
Danville has changed and has become a destination city for many in the east bay who grew up poor and do not know how to handle money. they want a Danville or Blackhawk address (live at the "Gates"). There is a little of everything here so it's hard to generalize but you are right about many people in Danville. We are not all like that.
Posted by small business owner, a resident of the Alamo neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:43 am
Many small business owners are very wealthy and happy and make more money than wage slaves at big corporations. These comments come from typical wage slave mentality whose parents told them to work at a big company only to lose their jobs through mergers, layoffs and what have you and do not have a clue about to pick themselves up and fend for themselves.
Since when does going to college have anything to do with contributing? Some just want the paper,some cheat their way through. Education is different than just going to college. I graduated from college as did many small business owners. Why do you assume he is a failed business owner just because he doesn't like Danville? He is expressing his opinion and that is his view of Danville from what he has seen by owning his establishments. I find it an interesting perspective. You just confirmed what he said by being so narrow minded. Most large oorporations were once small businesses and many high tech start ups are started by offspring of a small business owner tht taught their kids to take risks. I can't believe people would make these ill informed and uneducated assumptions about this man or woman.
Posted by Good Morning, a resident of the Alamo neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:20 am
What a string of postings!! Made my morning.
It looks like this thread went form Medical Ganja to how people perceive Danville. Two different topics.
I think its funny that people would think that Danville is "better" than any other town in the area, state, country, etc. Is it wealthier than most, yes. Better Schools, Beautiful Weather, Less Crime, YES to ALL.
When it comes down to it are the people genuinely happier than people living elsewhere? Do they have any fewer problems, issues, etc. than people living in other towns or cities?
I would say Danville is no different than most in terms of percentage of people who are genuinely unhappy, happy, abusive, addicts, enlightened, etc. It just happens to look A LOT nicer and more appealing to the eye.
With that said, I thoroughly enjoy returning to Alamo & Danville and I appreciate the place for what it is.
Posted by spcwt, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I like Danville. My neighbors are nice. My kid's school is pretty good. I enjoy the the shops & restaurants. I've been married 17 years & haven't cheated on my wife. She treats me real good. Nice weather here. Pretty too. That pilot guy, Sully, lives here. There's probably a couple other decent folks around town who are like him. It's not such a bad place.
We don't need weed shops here. If people need weed, Walnut Creek is close.
Posted by chiefbc, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 10:57 am
KNator, if you have such a distaste for danville leave. this is a great town to live in, raise a family in and own a business in(which i do). i own a bar/restaurant in danville. i see some of what you are talking about but for you to generalize about the community as a whole is a bit insulting to the many good people who live here. for every person you are talking about i see 10 good people raising their children in a clean and safe community. i spend a fair amount of time at the local bars and restaurants. yes, some people smoke pot. yes, some people drive home drunk. no, its not a vast majority of the people.if you really feel like drugs and alcohol are abused at a "staggering" rate in danville i suggest you spend some time in sanfrancisco, or if thats too far try walnut creek, and get yourself a little reality check.
Posted by bubbie, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:41 pm
chiefbc... you obviously didn't read KNators posts. He specifically said that most people in danville are good people, just that folks are in denial that theres a seedy underbelly. He also called out people that say love it or leave it, just like you just did. You just proved him right.
Posted by chiefbc, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 3:14 pm
bubbie, this is what knators wrote: "actually In short, I believe that Danville is a highly dysfunctional community, one that tries desperately to keep up the false appearance of high morals and small-town values. In reality, it is a base, nouveau-riches, hypocritical place that once had the glory of being a truly idyllic ranching and farming community".
in his next post he tried to back track a little but couldnt contain his contempt for the town or the people, i.e., "Over the time I've spent here, the attitude of people like you has somewhat soured my initial enthusiasm for the town. I know your type. You're the politician that preaches values and then has an affair. You're the person that rails for personal responsibility, but wouldn't dare let your kid join the military. You're the white-collar middle manager at a mortgage firm who dares not speak up about the financial drugs you're pushing, because you're too scared to lose your job. You're the one who pushes your kid too hard to get good grades and play sports, never mind the fact that your kid doesn't remember a damn thing he's learned and is smoking pot in your basement. You're the one whose wife is sleeping with the pool boy because she's bored with life and with you.
In short, you're the reason why I wrote my original post. Check yourself before you wreck yourself - I already have, and will be leaving town when my lease expires. You should pat yourself on the back for the good work you've done, running someone that cares about values, community, and culture out of town. Congrats".
yes, i would rather he leave this town than spread his venomous and false views of our town. these are broad generalizations about a very nice town with a lot of good people.
Posted by Dawn, a resident of the Alamo neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:41 pm
One of the things I've always found... quixotic about Danville is its rampant consumerism. I'm all for consumption, no problems there, but -- two things:
1. In all the years (20) I've lived in Alamo - I'm now in my 4th house here - I have yet to make a new acquaintance from Danville who doesn't say something along the lines of, 'Oh, Alamo! We love Alamo - our place is right on the border!,' or 'We're just across the town line from Alamo!' Honestly, I couldn't care less, but lots of Danville dwellers do. Again, this is anecdotal, but telling.
2. For a community that consistently votes Democrat, Danville folks sure do like their designer status symbols (clothes, cars, handbags - anything that has someone else's costly name on it). Personally, if I'm gonna wear someone's name on my clothes or carry it on my arm, I feel like they should be sending me checks for the advertising.
Do you all feel guilty that you earn a decent living (vote Dem), but have to make sure everyone knows it (buy designer)?
Posted by Reader, a resident of the Walnut Creek neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I think its funny that an article about a potential medical marijuana dispensary has sparked a discussion about what type of community Danville really is. I think both sides are right, depending on what type of people you hang out with.
But to bring it full circle, it seems both sides could use a little trip to the dispensary then have a casual talk about the common good that binds this community together instead of what tears it apart. An open mind about the lifestyles of others could be realized and understood.
Posted by Lisa, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:12 am
Dawn, I'm not sure I understand your point. Is it that you think everyone in Danville really wants to live in/near Alamo, or at least give that impression? This quote in particular confuses me:
"Do you all feel guilty that you earn a decent living (vote Dem), but have to make sure everyone knows it (buy designer)?"
I've lived here 17 years, and I live near San Ramon which is how I describe my approximate location. I don't earn such a great living - I am a Democrat, and I work as a non-profit administrator (hence the low salary) at a well known agency where we are concerned with the common good - even those in Alamo. I don't buy designer - I buy very little (reducing consumer footprints and all that) in fact, often used items/clothes, and I do a hefty amount of donating the same.
I love my neighbors, not an "Alamo wannabe" in the bunch! I'm not sure if you are just not meeting people like me and my friends/neighbors, but thought I would throw out my own experience.
If I misunderstood and your post was not a characterization of all of the Danville residents as suffering from "Alamo envy" please let me know.
Posted by just so you know, a resident of the Walnut Creek neighborhood, on Oct 18, 2009 at 12:06 pm just so you know is a member (registered user) of Danville Express
This town is most definitely full of hypocrites. I'll bet none of the folks who supported Prop 8 (especially certain females on the town council) will help get the California Marriage Protection Act on the ballot in 2010. If you truly care about marriage and family (especially children) and are confident about the condition of your own marriage, why wouldn't you get this initiative on the ballot and vote for it? So, yep, this town is full of hypocrites.
Posted by Just so you know, a resident of the Walnut Creek neighborhood, on Oct 19, 2009 at 4:05 pm Just so you know is a member (registered user) of Danville Express
Cynthia's link highlights the oddity of the new political world - - Democrats are becoming the party for States' Rights and the Republicans are now the advocates for the Federal Government dominating your life.
Posted by Lola, a resident of the Danville neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I like the west side of Alamo but I wouldn't want to live in Alamo because they don't have a downtown. The thing I like best about Danville is it's walkability and my neighborhood and its location near downtown. I drive an older car and I don't care what people think at this point in my life.
There are obviously many different types of people in Danville with different views and opinions by looking at this post. I would like to live in Marin but it would probably annoy me in an opposite way.
Marijuana should be regulated so that there are not too many dispensaries on the same street like L.A. They are everywhere. They should be regulated locally and similar to liquor licenses so we can collect another sin tax along with income tax. It's not going away and it is apparently available to anyone who wants it so may as well tax it like we do cigarettes and alcohol and get some income tax and sales tax revenue for our depleted state.